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Vatican Excommunicates Four Chinese Bishops
Fox News ^

Posted on 06/09/2006 6:14:52 AM PDT by frogjerk

Edited on 06/09/2006 6:29:06 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

VATICAN CITY -- The Vatican on Thursday excommunicated two bishops ordained by China's state-controlled church without the pope's consent, escalating tensions as the two sides explore preliminary moves toward improving ties.

The Vatican also excommunicated the two bishops who ordained them, saying church law mandates excommunication for bishops involved in ordinations without Vatican approval.


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KEYWORDS: catholic; vatican
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1 posted on 06/09/2006 6:14:54 AM PDT by frogjerk
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To: frogjerk
VATICAN CITY -- The Vatican on Thursday excommunicated two bishops ordained by China's state-controlled church without the pope's consent

***************

Is this unusual?

2 posted on 06/09/2006 6:21:27 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
Is this unusual?

No, but it is news worthy.

3 posted on 06/09/2006 6:25:05 AM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: frogjerk
No, I meant is it unusual that the Pope was not informed. The situation in China seems to be very newsworthy indeed.
4 posted on 06/09/2006 6:27:58 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
Is this unusual?

States are not allowed to create their own bishops any more than they're allowed to install their own popes. Not and remain Catholic, that is.

But it has happened before in history, which is why there are canon laws and penalties for these situations.

5 posted on 06/09/2006 6:32:13 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: trisham

This is a breakaway church called the PCA (Patriotic Catholic Association) which was created in 1959 by the Communist government. The excommunication of those bishops effects little on the ground in China since these men are operating independently of the Catholic Church, and have been for 47 years. Benedict XVI issued the excommunication to warn the faithful really.


6 posted on 06/09/2006 6:33:43 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: trisham

There is a sort of parallel "national" church that exists in China, although it contains validly consecrated bishops and validly ordained priests. The Chinese government wants to be able to control the Church in China, appointing or at least vetting the bishops itself, and the Church is insisting that this is the prerogative of the Church alone.

A similar situation existed with Henry VIII and the state church he created. What the Vatican is trying to do now is prevent the creation of another national/state church not united to Rome. It's a struggle; as the article notes, there are talks going on. So it's odd that the Chinese would force the issue right now.


7 posted on 06/09/2006 6:36:34 AM PDT by livius
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To: vladimir998
This is a breakaway church called the PCA (Patriotic Catholic Association) which was created in 1959 by the Communist government. The excommunication of those bishops effects little on the ground in China since these men are operating independently of the Catholic Church, and have been for 47 years. Benedict XVI issued the excommunication to warn the faithful really.

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I had no idea that the Catholic Church in China was government run. Pope Benedict and the Vatican are doing a lot of much-needed housecleaning, it seems.

8 posted on 06/09/2006 6:36:39 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: livius
A similar situation existed with Henry VIII and the state church he created. What the Vatican is trying to do now is prevent the creation of another national/state church not united to Rome. It's a struggle; as the article notes, there are talks going on. So it's odd that the Chinese would force the issue right now.

*************

Interesting comparison. You're right, it does seem odd.

9 posted on 06/09/2006 6:39:10 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I meant it is usual that the Pope excommunicates Bishops being ordained without Vatican approval.


10 posted on 06/09/2006 6:43:42 AM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: trisham

It's unusual in that it doesn't happen very often ... but when it (illicit ordination) does happen, excommunication is the usual result.


11 posted on 06/09/2006 6:47:09 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: frogjerk

No problem. I received some excellent replies. Thanks for posting the article.


12 posted on 06/09/2006 6:48:05 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

In PR China, there's the communist state run "Patriotic Catholic Association", which is illegitimate and operates in defiance of the Pope, and there's the Catholic Church, which must exist 'underground' in a state of severe persecution, but is in full communion with the Pope and the rest of us Catholics.


13 posted on 06/09/2006 6:50:59 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
In PR China, there's the communist state run "Patriotic Catholic Association", which is illegitimate and operates in defiance of the Pope, and there's the Catholic Church, which must exist 'underground' in a state of severe persecution, but is in full communion with the Pope and the rest of us Catholics.

*************

Thanks. It seems very odd for a communist country to be involved in the Church, even in this way.

14 posted on 06/09/2006 7:02:41 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; ArrogantBustard

Dear trisham,

Of course, that neat division between the PCA and the real Church has blurred in recent years, as it turns out that the communist government of China and the Vatican have been inching toward rapprochement by privately agreeing to common candidates for episcopal appointments, and by the Vatican secretly accepting the allegiance of previously-schismatic state bishops and priests.

I read recently that the current dust-up may have been provoked by the leadership of the PCA, itself, in defiance of the central government. It appears that there may be elements in the PCA who aren't really in favor of better relations with the Church? There was a thread alluding to this stuff in the last week or two.


sitetest


15 posted on 06/09/2006 7:06:24 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

Thank you. This thread has been very informative.


16 posted on 06/09/2006 7:10:19 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

They were government appointed/approved bishops -- not the REAL Catholic Church is China. It is underground at this time.


17 posted on 06/09/2006 7:26:07 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: trisham
Here is some history on the Catholic Church in China:


Remote Catholic Community Maintains Faith Without Priest For 50 Years
Vatican condemns bishops' arrest
Seven Catholic priests arrested in Hebei
Church persecution and growth in China

Chinese Bishops Want Vatican Approval
CHINA'S MARIAN SHRINES
LIST OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS AND PRIESTS IN PRISON IN COMMUNIST CHINA
An Unapproved Ordination Looms in China AsiaNews Sees Trouble Ahead
China ignores Vatican over bishop (Chinese gov't ordains its own Catholic bishop)

Report: Chinese Church to Defy Vatican
China Installs (2nd) Bishop Without Vatican OK)
Second thoughts on Communist episcopal ordinations
Vatican Excommunicates 4 Chinese Bishops
Vatican Statement on Illicit Ordinations in China - "A Grave Violation of Religious Liberty"

Authorities renew persecution of Catholics in China
Cardinal Zen of Hong Kong, China, offers Pontifical Solemn High Mass in the Tridentine rite
Monsignor Zhan Silu installs himself as bishop and condemns himself to isolation
Vatican official: Church in China seeks no privileges, only freedom
Vatican Excommunicates Four Chinese Bishops

18 posted on 06/09/2006 7:31:30 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: trisham

The provision in the Code of Canon Law for excommunication, latae sententiae, of bishops who consecrate others bishop without papal mmandate, and those so consecrated, was actually added to the 1917 Code by Pius XII specifically in view of the "Patriotic" Church and its unauthorized episcopal consecations. Of course in the West it was most famously invoked with regard to Archbishop Lefebvre and the four SSPX members he consecrated without papal authorization in 1988. I doubt if the technical arguments advanced by Abp Lefebvre against the excommunication being effective (necessity, grave fear, etc.), whatever one might think of them in that case, could be thought to apply in the Chinese situation.


19 posted on 06/09/2006 7:59:04 AM PDT by Theophane
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To: Salvation

Thank you. I look forward to reading your links.


20 posted on 06/09/2006 8:25:15 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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